The Stupidity of Fraternity

Another student is dead.

Cris Anthony Mendez was suspected to have died because of hazing in this Inquirer report.

His death, suspected to be the result of hazing, cut short his Friendster run.

I have expressed before how pointless these fraternities are. I don’t give a crap whatever these so-called organizations claim to accomplish or contribute to society. We have countless other organizations that do the same thing, but do not get their members pointlessly killed.

The concept of undergoing initiation to prove commitment to the group still eludes me. What eludes me more is the point of their continuous existence right within school premises. I understand that we have the right to convene and express our ideologies. But when people die senselessly in the process of joining, then we have a problem. A big one.

Again, the Anti-Hazing law seems to bear no meaning to these idiots who continue to engage in these illegal activities of fraternities.

Technorati: , , ,

Advertisements

79 thoughts on “The Stupidity of Fraternity

  1. Pingback: The true barbarians of UP (UPDATED) « blog @ AWBHoldings.com
  2. The first thing that they do is go into hiding. Nakakainis.

    I hope heads will roll in this case. They ought to stand up for their collective and individual actions (or non-action!).

    They owe that much to Cris who thought that their fraternity was worth joining, suffering, and dying for.

    No amount of praises for the supposed contributions of these frats can ever bring back the boy’s life.

  3. Big picture?!

    Mamimilosopo muna ako.

    Yan ang big picture. Big picture ni Cris Anthony Mendez. Napatay sa hazing.

    Gusto mo rin ng kina Dennis Venturina, Mark Roland Martin, Alex Icasiano, Niño Calinao at Den Daniel Reyes?

    Hanap muna tayo.

  4. Pingback: Niño Calinao, Dennis Venturina, Cris Mendez, at ang mga diyos sa UP | ederic@cyberspace
  5. Pingback: Justice for Cris Anthony Mendez » Touched by an Angel »
  6. The big picture perhaps is that the most terrible murderer of all is apathy.

    I hope we can keep this issue alive. I can’t believe that there are more people who’re enraged at a socialite columnist’s article than in a case of a young man who met his untimely death at the hands of his so-called “brothers” (though technically they’re not his brothers yet because he hasn’t gone past the initiation rites yet) and people are keeping silent about it because it is an “expected” risk if you join such organizations.

    No murder will ever be justifiable.

    If the blogging community can mobilize such a great number of people as that what happened in the Malu Fernandez issue, why can’t it do it now? It makes me wonder.

  7. Pingback: Put A Stop To The Barbaric Practice of Hazing
  8. It’s so easy for all of you to make sweeping statements and lump us all together in one bunch of crap. After all, it is so typical for people to fear, hate and bitch on things they don’t know jack crap about. The fear of the unknown. The resentment of not ever knowing.

    You said:

    “The concept of undergoing initiation to prove commitment to the group still eludes me. What eludes me more is the point of their continuous existence right within school premises.”

    And it will forever elude you. Why must we explain our sacred rites doctrines to the likes of you? Our continuous existence of at least 70 years goes beyond these senseless killings and deaths that are fraternity-related. It’s so typical that negative news like this one gets more mileage than the positive things (at least as far as MY frat is concerned) we get from our organization.

    Just because we are fratmen too, does that mean that we are also guilty? Guilty by mere association? That’s bollocks!

    I’m not here to validate or justify these deaths. Mind, we abhor them, and we make sure that things like these don’t happen in OUR Fraternity.

    I find all these deaths utterly senseless too. My fraternity – alumni and resident brods – do not in any way approve of them. Just like Sigma Rho, we are a very old fraternity rich in tradition, though unlike them, we NEVER had any frat-related deaths in our entire history.

    And don’t you dare call us elitist. Pot meet kettle, and boy is it so friggin black. U.P. in itself is an institution of the elite — the intellectual elite — after all, not everyone can INTELLECTUALLY afford to be in U.P.

    In parting, don’t associate us too with these street gangs with Greek-lettered names: tau gamma phi and alpha kappa rho come to mind. We legitimate fratmen don’t recognize them as one of our ilk.

  9. I am a Fratman, from UP.

    I won’t defend hazing…and I agree, senseless beatings to drive commitment or loyalty doesn’t hold water. for what good is a dead brother, to the fraternity and to society?

    But I did went into our Initiation Rites but I won’t call it Hazing as Hazing have such a bad connotation. I won’t go into specific details but would try to expound on the concept or principle of the Initiation Rites.

    When I was the Council Chairman of our Fraternity (nope, this is not the Top Guy…but the 3rd Top Guy…but a critical role as the Chairman is THE BOSS during initiation rights, and his decision overrides the Top Guy…sounds like a Check and Balance type of system; and the Chairman oversees a lot of the important functional and policy matters as Four Officers on the Council report to him), I often allude to the Initation Rites to aspiring neophytes, as the equivalent of the Marine Corps Confidence Course.

    In the Marines…boot camp soldiers undergo rigorous physical trainings and this includes a Confidence Course. The Confidence Course includes running through rough terrain, climbing obstacles, and even traversing a tight rope spanning over a great height. There’s element of personal physical risk but everything is controlled. Any Marine who has completed the confidence course gains personal…”confidence”…and realization of his personal physical limits…but more importantly, the gain is more mental.

    The initiation rites is similar to this confidence course. It is designed to subject the Batch to a stress environment (not solely physical but sometimes mental in nature)…and bring a bunch of Strangers through a series of shared obstacles so that these Strangers form a solid bond of friendship and camaraderie when they emerge from the “gauntlet of tests” victorious.

    “Ang bida sa Initiation is never the Brods…it is always the Neophytes. The following weeks will never be the personal story of triumph by the Brods…it is yours to cherish forever”.

    I offer these words of encouragement to all Neophytes who went through our initiation process especially at their darkest moments when their Fighting Spirit is at its lowest points. As a Council Chairman, I and my Officers are behind our Neophytes every step of the way…and our job is to drive the initiation process in a controlled manner and test the mental and emotional limits of our future brothers…the physical component is always secondary.

    We had very strict rules in conducting initations (e.g. any brod that smell of the slightest hint of alcohol or liquor is barred from participating in the session).

    It is not unusual for a Councilman to stand between a neophyte and a Brod if the Brod is out of line. Even the Top Guy’s word counts for nothing versus the Council Chairman on decisions regarding the initiation proper, especially on issues around the safe and controlled conduct of the process. I was fortunate to have such level-headed “Frat Presidents” to avoid ever having to exercise this prerogative.

    Anyone who has joined a good Teambuilding activity at their office would have undergone a similar process. When I was already part of the Corporate World, I joined a good teambuilding activity for a group involved in the Marketing Arm of this company. It was run by this very, very good organization-design consultant. There were PHYSICAL activities involved but the beauty of the overnight process was how this Consultant berated the Group everytime we fail to complete an objective…bordering to public humiliation! Everyone was fuming mad (except me, as I understand the “rationale” behind all the drama…having gone through college frat initation). This fueled the group to perform better and in the wee hours of the daw, the Team completed the final, most difficult task…and proven themselves! The feeling of overcoming a common obstacle was simply electrifying…truly a good teambuilding event.

    I guess the idea of subjecting initates to secret rites and traditions can be traced back to secret societies all the way back to the Ancient World…hence the idea of being Greek-lettered societies adopted through the American school system (where I believe the Fraternity idea came from and assimilated into Philippine colleges and universities, especially UP). And some of these secret and exclsuive societies still exist today and operate in some similar fashion…like say the Freemasons.

    Even non-fraternity/sorority organizations in UP do have similar “baptisms of fire” for applicants which vary in nature and degree…I recall UP ACES (Civil Engineering students) would have an overnight drinking binge out-of-town until the applicants passed out…and Gears & Pinions (Mechanical Engineering students) would have Male applicants run around Melchor Hall (engineering building) wearing Girl’s clothing (dusters), masks (to cover their identities) and combat boots, and perform silly dance numbers in front of the other organization “tambayans”…with the finale “Mightor” run.

    But Death under Fraternity initiations again could never be justified. I agree 100%.

    But it also doesn’t justify sweeping statements as well that labels the entire Fraternity community as irresponsible and violent.

    Initiations are a staple process among most organizations, particularly Fraternities because they do aim to achieve an end-result/end-state for a batch of initiates as I have tried to expound above.

    Resident members and officers of fraternities should also make serious introspections on how to conduct these “baptism of fire” traditions to eliminate any more incidents of deaths during hazing, even if it is claimed to be accidental. Otherwise, the Fraternity as an Idea will lose relevance and appeal to future generations of outstanding students/future leaders.

    I am fortunate to have joined a UP Engineering Fraternity where my personal experience convinces me that when the time comes and my son chooses to join the fold, that I am secured in the thought that my Fraternity Resident Brothers are not lost in the principles behind the initation rites and these men are thinking way above the heads of other lesser fraternities whose conduct erodes the good name behind UP Fraternities.

  10. Well said, Brod.

    I won’t be surprised if both of our sons end up as batchmates in 2017, your son being a second-generation brod, and my son, a third-generation brod. As a parent, I’m willing to have my son join his father (Batch 1990) and grandfather (Batch 1964) in one same fraternity.

    You know why?

    I know, with much confidence, that my son won’t end up dead nor he becoming a killer.

    The problem is, most people don’t know squat what a real fraternity is all about.

    UP Argonaut 90

  11. Collegian, paki-post nmn ung mga pics ni Cris taken at the morgue para matigil na ang pag-justify ng mga iba dyan sa hazing. Hindi ko pa rin naiintindihan kung bakit may hazing at bakit ipinipilit nilang tama ito. Puro duwag nmn pag namatay ung neophyte, iiwan na lang basta.

    SANA MAHULI NA UNG MGA DUWAG! WAG KAYONG MAGTAGO! MAHAHANAP AT MAHAHANP DIN KAYO!!

    Pwede nyong ma-trace lahat ng nag-txt at namilit kay Cris na sumali. Basta may court order kayo, Globe or Smart can trace all those who texted him and eventually pwede nyo ring malaman kung saan sila nagtatago thru GPRS.

    NAGAWA NILA ITO KAY HONASAN.

    PLS. GAWIN NIYO NA BAGO PA SILA LUMABAS NG BANSA!!
    WALA KASI KONG NABALITAAN NA MAY HOLD DEPARTURE ORDER SA MGA SUSPECTS.

  12. Hey edge: Are you from U.P.? If so, what the blue blazes are you talking about justifying hazing? And what are you implying?

    Obviously you have a reading disability and can’t fully understand the gist of our argument. Who says we do hazing? Who says we are justifying it and it is right and valid?

    Reread our posts and go back to highschool and learn how to read and understand the context of the written words.

  13. Edge…pards.

    Cris’ death is indeed meaningless and I don’t intend to dilute that with my essay above.

    I agree with you that those responsible should be brought to face the consequences of thsi tragic incident.

    But please…no sweeping statements across the Fraternity and Sorority community.

  14. Regarding Cris Mendez’s case, it is just sad that Sigma Rho has been in the middle of this whole media blitz.

    For some weird reason, the situation really points to Sigma Rho as the recuiters of Cris. Why? They are the main recruiters in Public Ad since the NCPAG was instituted and they are known to recruit the graduating students esp. those who have a good academc history. I just don’t understand why they keep on recruiting graduating kids. Hoping that they will be accepted to the College of Law? That’s a risk in itself. What’s the use of this brod if he can’t be active in his school days?

    The death of Cris is not acceptable. There is no other way to say it. Within the world of Fraternities and Sororities, it should not still be acceptable.

    I myself am a second generation fratman as well as all my cousins are. As most sons, nephews of Fratmen, we would either join our elders’ fraternity or just stay as a barbarian. This has been a case of my friends as well. We all joined our respective fathers’ fraternities within our stint in UP.

    These physical tests have been overly abused by some people which do not understand why these tests have been instilled down the different generations. I personally am not a fan of this though there are different ways of testing said “applicants”.

    The culture of Fraternities and Sororities will never be an open book to non-members. The only way for one to really understand it is either to have a relative who is part of the culture or be in the culture.

  15. Pingback: Apathy: The Most Cold-Hearted Murderer Of Them All
  16. Dear All,

    I would like to express my gratitude to the writers above. It’s been a week since I first noted the incident, and have read write-ups here and there to get a broader perspective of the incident.

    The comments above, especially those shared by UP Fratman and UP Argonaut 86, warrant more than short replies. I hope to address their comments and add a few more of my insights as well in the coming days.

    For now, I think we can all agree that no one is justifying hazing, and no one is justifying the death of Cris. Too many words have been thrown left and right, to the point that people — from frat members to ordinary citizens — are mixing up the issues. The existence of these groups, the tradition of physical induction rites, and the death of Cris, may all be connected on some level, but are still three separate issues that may need to be addressed differently.

    I think, what we really need now is a better understanding of the fraternities, and why there are people who see the need, the importance of being part of fraternities, and the ideologies behind the most controversial practices and ideas. The reasons and motives may be as diverse as the number of members of all the fraternities generations after generations; thus, I think that no one can simply leap to the moral conclusion, the goodness or otherwise, of the idea.

    But we do need to make sense of separate issues, as a society and as individuals. And if there’s anything that I hope that wish to come out of all this, it is to have a better and clearer understanding. And from a better understanding, I, or maybe others as well, can make more informed decisions and insights in the future, when or if I become a parent, or a relative, or a godparent, of an individual who will be faced with the issues we are all facing today.

  17. woo lots of emotionally charged discussion but let me try to channel my previous comment… look at the bigger picture in that LOTS of people die in horribly unjustified ways everyday. The fact is, most people partaking in Fraternity life are doing so willingly, regardless of what social pressures they may feel, and are often enjoying educational and social opportunities in life that the majority of the world rarely glimpses… the big picture, simply stated, means to try to bear in mind that horrible as these incidents are, they are by no means warrant to condemn all fraternal organizations or their practices. It’s too often a case of generalization and hysteria that keeps parents in a state of emotional distress over the idea of their child falling into one of these groups.

  18. For all of you who seem to have misinterpreted my comments, I believe anyone involved in breaking he law should be held responsible. However I do not believe in sensationalizing a crime or giving it impedence over other crimes, especially when it leads to the media labelling groups (fraternities) who participate in vaguely similar activities (initiation ceremonies) as first degree murders. Surely that is clear enough.

  19. Dear Difensore

    Di kaya si ???? ka na kacontemporary ko sa Peyups circa mid to late 80s?

    Dear Unsentpostcards and Corelations and the rest of the folks who read and commentd on this site,

    If I or UP Fratman sounded a bit too partial in our views and defensive about the Fraternity as an Idea and a System…then I please accept my sincerity that it was never the intent.

    I just felt that with an impending bandwagon…the specific issue with the death (or murder as some people would think of it that way) of Cris Mendez becomes lost in the dust…

    Let’s deal with specifics and not generalities and sweeping statements.

    There are many outstanding alumni among the different UP Fraternities…that doesn’t mean, and this I say with sincerity and humility, that Fraternities and Sororities have a monopoly on genuises. Because there are many outstanding graduates who never joined a Frat or a Sorority.

    In the same token, an incident involving the tragic death of a UP student under alleged hazing (for we don’t know the exact details yet) doesn’t make the entire Sigma Rho (if they were indeed the Fraternity under which Cris was allegdly undergoing initiation) a bunch of Murderers.

    Extrapolating this more, it doesn’t mean that the other Fraternities (I belong to a different UP Engineering Frat and not Sigma Rho) and Sororities are a formalized and structured organization of violence…a Mafia if you may. I believe that WAS never an agenda or objective of any well-meaning Fraternity or Sorority.

    So let’s have cooler and rationale heads as we seek justice for this young victim.

    In the movie “A Few Good Men”, the idea of a sanctioned penalizing action called Code Blue led to the death of oneyoung Marine enlisted man. His own company subjected him to beatings on different occasions because he cannot keep up with the regimen and he’s pulling down the rest of the company. Code Blue was never intended to kill him…but to impress a message to “shape up”. Tragically, internal organ complications arising from those beatings led to his death.

    In the end, the bad guy (Jack Nicholson the Commandant and his stooge Kiefer Sutherland the Aide-de-Camp) took the rap…and while the US Government looked into these “military traditions”, they never looked at abolishing the Marine Corps.

    Let’s hope the responsible persons involved with the Cris Mendez case steps up and face the consequences of their action.

  20. Last comment ko na yung above (ito pala) unsentpostcards, I hope and promise. You’ve got a nice site and at least you have stimulated a good discussion.

    Everyone will surely take away serious lessons from this incident and from everyone’s perspective.

    Peace brothers.

  21. Pingback: Silkenhut reaching out Issue 8 | Silkenhut's World
  22. @UP Argonaut 86:

    I’m honored that you were the Council Head when I entered the Fraternity. If all frats patterned our rites, guidelines, and policies when it comes to the Initiation Process, I doubt if there would ever be such a thing as hazing-related deaths. Then again, why should we expose our sacred rites to non-members?

    As always the statesman that you are, you have eloquently expressed all the exasperations and frustrations inside me. It sickens me to the bone whenever people easily jump into the bandwagon and start the witch-hunting. For them, you see one frat, you see them all… and I find that insulting!

    The neophytes are potential brothers – the future, the life-blood of our Fraternity. It would be these people who will carry our torch and pass it from generation to generation as what has been done for more than 7 decades. Unlike some pretenders, we are already an institution in our alma mater.

    So why in the name of sentido common would we subject these future brothers of ours of things that would be detrimental to their health, their well-being, their very own life? In the end we will be compromising the very existence of our Fraternity had we behaved the way we are being accused of.

    It really doesn’t make sense.

    And as such, I really find it insulting that these ignorant witch-hunters, Senator Santiago included, are crying out for the abolition of fraternities, and that include ours when the only alleged crime that we have is that we are recognized as fratmen, that we are members of THE Fraternity.

    How dare they, brod, how dare they.

    They have no idea what their spittle-brimming mouths are saying.

    If Sigma Rhoans are the culprits, then let them and their fraternity face the consequences of such actions.

    If Upsilonians are the culprits, then let them and their fraternity face the consequences of such actions.

    If Betans of Beta Epsilon are the culprits, then let them and their fraternity face the consequences of such actions.

    If Tau Alphans are the culprits, then let them and their fraternity face the consequences of such actions.

    If Alpha Phi Betans are the culprits, then let them and their fraternity face the consequences of such actions.

    But in no way should all of them be accountable just because of another one’s irresponsibility.

    @correlations: I have come to realize that not everyone is as lucid and as objective as we would have wanted them to be. I have yet to get any form of intelligent rebuttal from the likes of edge and ederic. People like them don’t see the bigger picture and would have a very myopic view when it comes to this issue.

    @Difensore:

    You said:
    “These physical tests have been overly abused by some people which do not understand why these tests have been instilled down the different generations. I personally am not a fan of this though there are different ways of testing said “applicants”.

    The culture of Fraternities and Sororities will never be an open book to non-members. The only way for one to really understand it is either to have a relative who is part of the culture or be in the culture.”

    You hit it right in the noggn’, brethren. I’m so glad that another fratman other than my own brod has validated my point of view.

  23. I would like to reiterate and emphasize my point as I quote Difensore again:

    “These physical tests have been OVERLY ABUSED by SOME people who DO NOT UNDERSTAND why these tests have been INSTILLED DOWN THE DIFFERENT GENERATIONS. I personally am not a fan of this though there are different ways of testing said “applicants”.

    THE CULTURE of Fraternities and Sororities will NEVER BE AN OPEN BOOK to NON-MEMBERS. The only way for one to really understand it is either to have a relative who is part of the culture or be in the culture.”

    If there is one thing though that I do not full agree with Difensore is that not even being a relative or a spouse of a fratman is a guarantee that one would fully understand the culture of THAT SPECIFIC FRATERNITY in question. YOU HAVE TO BE A MEMBER of that SPECIFIC FRATERNITY.

    If the likes of Senator Enrile and Senator Salonga of Sigma Rho would make scathing statements of disowning their fraternity or condemning their brods (assuming that they are indeed the guilty ones), then that MEANS A LOT AS FAR AS SIGMA RHO IS CONCERNED.

    LEAVE US OTHER LEGITIMATE FRATERNITIES (and NOT gang members) OUT OF THIS. It is not us. It is not our responsibility. We cannot tell them or anyone how to conduct their business.

  24. Lastly, @unsentpostcards:

    I have read a number of websites linked to this issue but I chose to stay in yours. I rather stick to the issue when it comes to sweeping statements against the Fraternity Community in U.P.

    My message is clear: condemn this senseless killings, put a stop to this, and let those responsible take the consequences of their actions…

    …but please leave us who don’t have anything to do with it, alone. We do have Initiation Rites but we don’t do hazing. There is a BIG difference between the two. If others would be cynical about it, I would just have to accept that it’s not my obligation to enlighten these feeble minds. My Fraternity’s impeccable record of more than 7 decades (far older than most fraternities and pretenders) can attest to that.

    The fault of one is NOT the fault of ALL.

    @Arbet, ederic, Prudence, and edge: What say you?

  25. To UP Fratman:

    Although I am so enraged with the death of Chris Mendes, I do not agree with abolishing fraternities/soro. This is a free country and although I do not understand (and have no desire to understand) the reason for the existense of these elitist orgs, I do believe that it is within the principles of demoncracy that these orgs are allowed to exist.

    I’m okay with your culture of brotherhood, outreach and in universities such as UP, cultivation of excellence among your young members. But sadly, along with these excellent virtues if you may, there is also a culture of violence similar to those cultivated by gangsters–frat wars, hazings, infliction of physical injuries. And when there are injuries from frat wars and death from hazings happen, a cloud of silence hover among the community of fraternities. Walang magsasalita, walang magsusumbong. What is so sacred about this?

    In this sense, you may not be the inflicter of pain nor murderers but you are ALL enablers.

  26. Hi Anti-Hazing mom!

    Aside from being a fratman, I’d also like to see myself as Anti-Hazing Dad as my own son enters UP (hopefully) in about 8 years.

    You are absolutely right in your point about how this “cloud of silence” hover around these unfortunate incidents.

    But then again…this is very local and not global…for how can our fraternity for example, report on such abuse if the event happened outside of our own circle…by an alleged other fraternity.

    I always use “alleged” because as of today, there is no first hand proof but merely hearsays that pulls the name of one fraternity (again, not ours) to the death of Cris.

    Again…please don’t use sweeping statements towards teh UP frat community…because if that is entirely true, then the whole College of Public Administration student community (even the non-fratmen) is equally guilty…until someone from that college steps out and accomplishes a sworn statement pinpointing the specific Fratmen whom Cris was seen with shortly before his death.

    If there is an enabler out there…it would be this (or “these”, if not only a single person) person who has FIRST HAND knowledge about the incident….I have not followed the news closely from here in Dubai, but if that person has indeed come out to testify or provide police with concrete evidence, then I commend him/her for being brave enough to do so.

    People who don’t have first hand knowledge are never enablers of this “cloud of silence”…to speak out based on hearsays is an equally irresponsible act.

    It does not do the Wheel of Justice any good.

  27. @Anti-hazing Mom:

    You said:
    “And when there are injuries from frat wars and death from hazings happen, a cloud of silence hover among the community of fraternities. Walang magsasalita, walang magsusumbong. What is so sacred about this?”

    Cloud of silence? From us? Why do you think are we silent? Silence from what? What makes you say so?

    What’s there for us to say? What’s there for us to report to the authorities? What exactly do you expect us to do?

    Just because of hearsay? What’s this? Are we in the time of Early Modern Europe from the 1400’s to the 1700’s when females were tried and burned at the stake for witchcraft and heresy just because of hearsays and mere perceptions and allegations not substantiated by facts and evidences as recognized by modern courts? Are you trying to be disturbingly funny? Are you one of those who would immediately take the moral high ground and arbitrarily condemn all of us because of mere semantic association (i.e., we call ourselves fratmen, they call themselves fratmen, ergo we are all the same)?

    If so, I suggest you step out of that holier-than-thou soap box since you would have been barking at the wrong tree — A VERY, VERY, VERY WRONG TREE.

    With all due respect ma’am, if we ARE to follow DUE PROCESS then we must have FIRST-HAND EVIDENCE. Otherwise, we are no better than those SELF-RIGHTEOUS IDIOTS during the time of the Great Burning in early modern Europe.

    YOU HAVE TO SHOW PROOF. Circumstantial evidences and MERE HEARSAY are inadmissible in court.

    For the sake of argument, let’s say that hazing does occur in some fraternities during their Initiation Rites. Do you actually think that we who are non-members of that frat are present and allowed to witness such rites?

    What we do in our OWN Fraternity is OUR BUSINESS. That is what is sacred for us. What other frats do is THEIR business too. Do you actually believe that we can tell other fraternities how to run their business? HAH! You gotta be kidding…

    It is not our responsibility to tell, much less inspect other frats exactly how they conduct their initiation rites and make sure that they don’t kill their neophytes.

    You yourself admitted that you do not have the desire to understand us and the reason behind our existence. In the same token, we have no desire to explain ourselves to the point of exposing things that are only available exclusively for our own members.

    Given that, unless you HAVE PROOF that members of a SPECIFIC FRATERNITY indulge in hazing, I suggest that you put a lid on sweeping statements and accuse ALL OF US of being as guilty and responsible for the death and injuries of others and by others whom we have no control of.

    WE CAN POLICE OUR OWN BRODS but it is stupid if not naive to think that we can police others.

    And furthermore, you said:
    “In this sense, you may not be the inflicter of pain nor murderers but you are ALL enablers.”

    Personally, I take offense of what you said. It’s like you’re saying that we are accessories and also responsible to the crime.

    How dare you.

  28. @Anti-hazing Mom:

    You said:
    “And when there are injuries from frat wars and death from hazings happen, a cloud of silence hover among the community of fraternities. Walang magsasalita, walang magsusumbong. What is so sacred about this?”

    Cloud of silence? From us? Why do you think are we silent? Silence from what? What makes you say so?

    What’s there for us to say? What’s there for us to report to the authorities? What exactly do you expect us to do?

    Just because of hearsay? What’s this? Are we in the time of Early Modern Europe from the 1400’s to the 1700’s when females were tried and burned at the stake for witchcraft and heresy just because of hearsays and mere perceptions and allegations not substantiated by facts and evidences as recognized by modern courts? Are you trying to be disturbingly funny? Are you one of those who would immediately take the moral high ground and arbitrarily condemn all of us because of mere semantic association (i.e., we call ourselves fratmen, they call themselves fratmen, ergo we are all the same)?

    If so, I suggest you step out of that holier-than-thou soap box since you would have been barking at the wrong tree — A VERY, VERY, VERY WRONG TREE.

    With all due respect ma’am, if we ARE to follow DUE PROCESS then we must have FIRST-HAND EVIDENCE. Otherwise, we are no better than those SELF-RIGHTEOUS IDIOTS during the time of the Great Burning in early modern Europe.

    YOU HAVE TO SHOW PROOF. Circumstantial evidences and MERE HEARSAY are inadmissible in court.

    For the sake of argument, let’s say that hazing does occur in some fraternities during their Initiation Rites. Do you actually think that we who are non-members of that frat are present and allowed to witness such rites?

    What we do in our OWN Fraternity is OUR BUSINESS. That is what is sacred for us. What other frats do is THEIR business too. Do you actually believe that we can tell other fraternities how to run their business? HAH! You gotta be kidding…

    It is not our responsibility to tell, much less inspect other frats exactly how they conduct their initiation rites and make sure that they don’t kill their neophytes.

    You yourself admitted that you do not have the desire to understand us and the reason behind our existence. In the same token, we have no desire to explain ourselves to the point of exposing things that are only available exclusively for our own members.

    Given that, unless you HAVE PROOF that members of a SPECIFIC FRATERNITY indulge in hazing, I suggest that you put a lid on sweeping statements and accuse ALL OF US of being as guilty and responsible for the death and injuries of others and by others whom we have no control of.

    WE CAN POLICE OUR OWN BRODS but it is stupid if not naive to think that we can police others.

    And furthermore, you said:
    “In this sense, you may not be the inflicter of pain nor murderers but you are ALL enablers.”

    Personally, I take offense of what you said. It’s like you’re saying that we are accessories and also responsible to the crime.

    How dare you.

  29. Forgive me, but I just can’t seem to grasp the reasons why somebody would join a fraternity in the first place. I have tried but have failed to understand its psychology. I know I am delving into matter that I hardly understand (or do not understand at all) for I am no frat guy. But let me speak.
    What could be the objectives or motivations of a freshman who considers joining a fraternity (or sorority)? Lose one’s individuality and become one of the many clones? Gain prestige? Or gain a personality that is ruthlessly imposed by the masters?
    Back in the University from where I hail from, some of my friends were joining fraternities for one obvious (but not oftenly admitted) reason – recognition. They wanted to be noticed, they wanted to be part of a bigger group that made them “men” for they were “almost” men (they were 17 years old) – they wanted something that would make up for the very handicap that haunted them – anonymity. And for this they lose their individuality for the next four years or so for the bigger group had altered its natural course and evolution. The group forcefully inculcates a culture, a “personality”, that come to think of it, is just a gang-mentality-riddled mob behavior kind of thing that is on steroids.
    Do these fraternities help their members past college? Do they really help in securing a good job for its alumni (I know one fraternity that does, and this one is an exception)? Or is it just a “tag” a “title” that people want to be twistedly proud of when they look back after 20 years and play arrogant fools in front of their kids like “Hey, Junior, look at me, we used to rule the University”. And the kid would say “Actually, you know what, Dad, I think you’re stupid having have joined in the 1st place…” (just kidding fratguys!)
    In our University, some of the people I know who joined the frats admitted they are joining because they wanted to be noticed – mostly by girls and this is kind of funny because when I was back in college I am getting the girls I wanted without a fraternity. Seriously. (haha, just wanted to share that funny thing). Could it be that one of the reasons freshmen join fraternities is because of insecurity? Remember, these freshmen are just on the way out of puberty – come to think of it, they are still kids! I mean, I doubt if any freshman seriously thought about the real rock-hard reasons why he is joining a fraternity.
    Anyway, the recent death of Cris Anthony Mendes is sad, but his death, I partly attribute to him and I don’t mean that in an offending-kind of way. He knew what could happen (just one faulty blow to the lumbar spine – boom!). He knew that people were dying (well not that frequently) but still he chose to go through that stupid “hoop of fire”.
    It’s just like a pack of cigarettes – you can either choose to smoke or not to smoke – all of us knows the consequences.

  30. This I can tell you guys: When my kids grow up and enter college I’ll tell them that joining a fraternity (or a sorority) is a choice they alone can make but I would certainly remind them that real-life brotherhood doesn’t require a fraternity. Real brotherhood stems out from life-altering, significant human experiences with people who wouldn’t have to hit you (and certainly would not hit you) with a blunt object for them to call you their “brother”. C’mon, real brotherhood stems out from an emotional experience – real friendship. No wood or blunt object can whack on that fact. As for Cris, how I wished he was able to live longer to have read our (yours and mine) commentaries. It could have changed his fate.

  31. Forgive me, but I just can’t seem to grasp the reasons why somebody would join a fraternity in the first place. I have tried but have failed to understand its psychology. I know I am delving into matter that I hardly understand (or do not understand at all) for I am no frat guy. But let me speak.
    What could be the objectives or motivations of a freshman who considers joining a fraternity (or sorority)? Lose one’s individuality and become one of the many clones? Gain prestige? Or gain a personality that is ruthlessly imposed by the masters?
    Back in the University from where I hail from, some of my friends were joining fraternities for one obvious (but not openly admitted) reason – recognition. They wanted to be noticed, they wanted to be part of a bigger group that made them “men” for they were “almost” men (they were 17 years old) – they wanted something that would make up for the very handicap that haunted them – anonymity. And for this they lose their individuality for the next four years or so for the bigger group had altered its natural course and evolution. The group forcefully inculcates a culture, a “personality”, that come to think of it, is just a gang-mentality-riddled mob behavior kind of thing that is on steroids.
    Do these fraternities help their members past college? Do they really help in securing a good job for its alumni (I know one fraternity that does, and this one is an exception)? Or is it just a “tag” a “title” that people want to be twistedly proud of when they look back after 20 years and play arrogant fools in front of their kids like “Hey, Junior, look at me, we used to rule the University”. And the kid would say “Actually, you know what, Dad, I think you’re stupid having have joined in the 1st place…” (just kidding fratguys!)
    In our University, some of the people I know who joined the frats admitted they are joining because they wanted to be noticed – mostly by girls and this is kind of funny because when I was back in college I am getting the girls I wanted without a the backing of a fraternity. Seriously. (haha, just wanted to share that funny thing). Could it be that one of the reasons freshmen join fraternities is because of insecurity? Remember, these freshmen are just on the way out of puberty – come to think of it, they are still kids! I mean, I doubt if any freshman seriously thought about the real rock-hard reasons why he is joining a fraternity.
    Anyway, the recent death of Cris Anthony Mendes is sad, but his death, I partly attribute to him and I don’t mean that in an offending-kind of way. He knew what could happen (just one faulty blow to the lumbar spine – boom!). He knew that people were dying (well not that frequently) but still he chose to go through that stupid “hoop of fire”.
    It’s just like a pack of cigarettes – you can either choose to smoke or not to smoke – all of us know the consequences.

  32. Forgive me, but I just can’t seem to grasp the reasons why somebody would join a fraternity in the first place. I have tried but have failed to understand its psychology. I know I am delving into matter that I hardly understand (or do not understand at all) for I am no frat guy. But let me speak.What could be the objectives or motivations of a freshman who considers joining a fraternity (or sorority)? Lose one’s individuality and become one of the many clones? Gain prestige? Or gain a personality that is ruthlessly imposed by the masters? Back in the University from where I hail from, some of my friends were joining fraternities for one obvious (but not openly admitted) reason – recognition. They wanted to be noticed, they wanted to be part of a bigger group that made them “men” for they were “almost” men (they were 17 years old) – they wanted something that would make up for the very handicap that haunted them – anonymity. And for this they lose their individuality for the next four years or so for the bigger group had altered its natural course and evolution. The group forcefully inculcates a culture, a “personality”, that come to think of it, is just a gang-mentality-riddled mob behavior kind of thing that is on steroids. Do these fraternities help their members past college? Do they really help in securing a good job for its alumni (I know one fraternity that does, and this one is an exception)? Or is it just a “tag” a “title” that people want to be twistedly proud of when they look back after 20 years and play arrogant fools in front of their kids like “Hey, Junior, look at me, we used to rule the University”. And the kid would say “Actually, you know what, Dad, I think you’re stupid having have joined in the 1st place…” (just kidding fratguys!). In our University, some of the people I know who joined the frats admitted they are joining because they wanted to be noticed – mostly by girls and this is kind of funny because when I was back in college I am getting the girls I wanted without a the backing of a fraternity. Seriously. (haha, just wanted to share that funny thing). Could it be that one of the reasons freshmen join fraternities is because of insecurity? Remember, these freshmen are just on the way out of puberty – come to think of it, they are still kids! I mean, I doubt if any freshman seriously thought about the real rock-hard reasons why he is joining a fraternity. Anyway, the recent death of Cris Anthony Mendes is sad, but his death, I partly attribute to him and I don’t mean that in an offending-kind of way. He knew what could happen (just one faulty blow to the lumbar spine – boom!). He knew that people were dying (well not that frequently) but still he chose to go through that stupid “hoop of fire”. It’s just like a pack of cigarettes – you can either choose to smoke or not to smoke – all of us know the consequences.

  33. Forgive me, but I just can’t seem to grasp the reasons why somebody would join a fraternity in the first place. I have tried but have failed to understand its psychology. I know I am delving into matter that I hardly understand (or do not understand at all) for I am no frat guy. But let me speak.
    What could be the objectives or motivations of a freshman who considers joining a fraternity (or sorority)? Lose one’s individuality and become one of the many clones? Gain prestige? Will someone please tell me in a manner that I can understand.
    Back in the University from where I hail from, some of my friends were joining fraternities for one obvious (but not openly admitted) reason – recognition. They wanted to be part of a bigger group that made them “men” for they were “almost men” (they were 17 years old) – they wanted something that would make up for their insignificance. And for this they lose their individuality for the next four years or so for the bigger group had altered its natural course and evolution.
    The group forcefully inculcates a culture, a “personality”, that come to think of it, is just a gang-mentality-riddled mob behavior kind of thing that is on steroids (strictly my opinion, peace guys!)
    Do these fraternities help their members past college? Do they really help in securing good jobs for its alumni (I know one fraternity that does, and this one is an exception that I know of)? Or is it just a “tag” a “title” that people want to be proud of when they look back after 20-30 years and play arrogant fools in front of their kids and tell tales like “Hey, Junior, look at me, we used to rule the University” (and the kid would say “Actually, you know what, Dad, I think you’re kind of stupid having have joined in the 1st place…” (just kidding fratguys! Peace bro!).
    Could it be that one of the reasons freshmen join fraternities is because of age-related insecurity of some sort? Remember, these freshmen are just on the way out of puberty – come to think of it, they are still kids! I mean, I doubt if there are many freshmen out there who seriously thought about the real rock-hard reasons of why they would want to join a fraternity.
    The recent death of Cris Anthony Mendes is sad, but his death, I partly attribute to him and I don’t mean that in an offending-kind of way. He knew what could happen (just one faulty blow to the lumbar spine – boom, bye to mom’s 17-year effort!) but still he chose to go through that stupid “hoop of fire”.
    It’s just like a pack of cigarettes – you can either choose to smoke or not to smoke – all of us know the consequences.

  34. One final note: fratguys and to all of you pro-fraternity people out there, if you think that by joining a fraternity enables you to make a significant dent in the universe, think again. There are a lot of organizations out there that would help you bring out your true potential and enable you help mankind in the sincerest manner possible. There’s the Red Cross, Caritas, Greenpeace, etc.
    Laugh all you want, but if your defense (and your programmed mentality) is that you think your respective fraternities can do better than these organizations in making this world a better place – think again, no able-bodied, intelligent human being would agree with you.
    You guys are wasting your energy and sometimes wasting other people’s lives.

  35. @fuzzylogic:

    If there is anything that I agree with you, that would be the name handle that you choose to use: fuzzy logic. I see a number of non-sequiturs in your argument.

    For one thing, those things that you mentioned as you portray fratmen to be: a bunch of immature, testosterone-bursting twerps who just recently graduated from being clearasil kids to alpha-male wannabes that can’t stand above the rest and be his own person, are prolly true… perhaps for some fraternities, pseudo-frats, and pretenders.

    But really now, ALL of us fratmen? You speak as if you really have inside stories of ALL fraternities, mine included. Who are you to say that MY FRATERNITY is everything that you have spoken and implied as such?

    In just one brush stroke you have included MY FRATERNITY and judged me and my brods as one of those poor excuses of what fratmen should be. This is the reason why I hate these so-called fratmen with such passion — they give US a bad name.

    How sure are you that the center-piece of OUR brotherhood revolves around the process of whacking someone in the gluteus maximus, or even worse, whacking someone indiscriminately?

    You assume too much, boyo. You speak of matters that you yourself admit you hardly understand and yet you speak with such a finality and conviction as if you are an expert in the area in which you know nothing of.

    First of all allow me to shoot down your initial premise — that we recruit freshmen because they are easy prey, they are gullible.

    In my fraternity, we don’t recruit freshmen. Sure, we make our presence felt and introduce our Fraternity to the new members of the student body through various activities sponsored and managed by the Fraternity — but we don’t recruit them. Freshmen are too raw to understand what college life truly is. They are easily subjected to irrational and impulsive behavior hence, they could easily make rash and stupid decisions that may well bring down our Fraternity and its reputation.

    You implied that our members lose their individuality and end up one of many clones? Gadz, dude, you really don’t know jack crap. If one of MY FRATERNITY’S objectives is to make us leaders of men (as reflected in our activities, fellowships, and achievements), I fail to reconcile that preposterous idea of yours that I and my brods have lost our individuality and are just mere clones. We DO recognize the individuality of each member and we believe that each of us should reach our full potential. Man, I’m so tempted to give you an intro that we would use when indoctrinate our neophytes during one of our rites… sadly, you’re not worth it. You are not even a U.P. student, much less a student of the College of Engineering of U.P. Diliman.

    Prestige. Here, I agree with you. It’s hard not to see the whole grand scheme of things if you are not UP here with us to get that better bird’s eye-view. But why should I explain these in detail? You’re down there. You’re not one of us.

    My Fraternity gives scholarships to deserving brods provided they maintain the minimum requirements that we have stipulated. Now, tell me, do you think these parents of our brods who normally come from poor family (especially from the provinces) think that their son made the wrong choice in joining us?

    The Fraternity recognizes the fact that we are in U.P. to study and be better students and individuals. We owe our parents that much, but who says we can’t be a brod and be a more improved student, a much better individual?

    Do we help our brods after they graduate? Of course we do. Being an old Frat, it is obvious that we would have senior brods who would have high positions in private corporations and government. Moreso, we have brods who actually own companies.

    When we take in a brod and help him with his job, there is the assurance that this person has great potentials – U.P. graduate, from Engineering (considered as one of the toughest colleges to survive), has leadership skills, trained in a lot of life and professional skills based on the activities and traditions observed and practiced exclusively in OUR organization.

    And here’s the kicker: credibility. A brod will not dare goof off in his job that was accommodated to him. He should be ashamed of himself if he didn’t do his best and end up showing the brods that he was not worthy at all of the help that was given him. This is not a case of affirmative action. He has still to prove that he does deserve to have that job.

    Our rival frat – another vintage fraternity, despite the traditional animosity between us, we have still have that respect towards each other. It is NOT uncommon if some of us would take some of them (or vice versa) in a job application and hire these individuals from the rival frat. We know that this person would do his job well since if he fails miserably, the other fraternity will laugh at him at the expense of his own beloved frat.

    We have golf tourneys and drinking sessions (among others) between our frats and we try to outdo each other when it comes to achievements – in the end, the university still wins because they would benefit from all these things that we are doing.

    You talk about Red Cross, Caritas, etc. Do you think that our brods don’t contribute in helping these organizations or even other similar organizations? Are you sure that we don’t do our fair share?

    Our Fraternity has contributed a significant chunk in our respective paths to success. And with this success, others have benefited. If we are not successful, how could we significantly help others?

    Lastly, you said:
    “You guys are wasting your energy and sometimes wasting other people’s lives.”

    I forgive you, for you don’t know what you are saying.

  36. Some say they do not understand why people line up entering frats. They say reasons like:
    .. Lose one’s individuality and become one of the many clones? Gain prestige?

    ..(but not openly admitted) reason – recognition. They wanted to be part of a bigger group that made them “men” for they were “almost men” (they were 17 years old) – they wanted something that would make up for their insignificance.

    ..Or is it just a “tag” a “title” that people want to be proud of when they look back after 20-30 years and play arrogant fools in front of their kids and tell tales like “Hey, Junior, look at me, we used to rule the University” (and the kid would say “Actually, you know what, Dad, I think you’re kind of stupid having have joined in the 1st place…”

    I think we got the reason here why people join frats. Because of those high up there, those with high mentality who believe in the statements like above. To the point of calling names: LOSER, clones, almost men, insignificant men, arrogant fools, stupid…

    Not all people are smart, intelligent, know every way how to deal with life like you or what ever. They join frats because they feel inferior to you or maybe they feel or they believe you look down on them and avoid them. They cannot reach you so they join the frats even knowing they end up hurt.

    You who are not frat people, do you take care of the people around you? Do you care for those who join frats because they want to belong (which is a human need)?

    Fraternity brothers support and care for their fraternity brothers. You gotta be one to now it, experience it and understand to what extent. Admittedly, some are in the right way and unfortunately some in the wrong way. But just the same they side one another- brother to brother..

    You want to abolish frats? BE BROTHERS TO ALL- especially to them who will join frats even if knowingly they will get hurt. Pain is a small price for us to pay. Maybe some of us are willing to die just to protect ourselves from you. Because you are many, I cannot face you alone. But I can now with MY BROTHERS.

  37. Anyone who feels the need to waste their energy telling others how to best “make a dent in the universe” should probably reevaluate their own methods. I don’t think the Red Cross would care to enter into a debate as to who made the most positive contribution, the point is to make a contribution of any kind. But then fuzzylogic seems to have trouble understanding that this isn’t a competition to see whether frat is better than non-frat; it’s a commentary on the abuse of a social organization’s power, authority, and influence over young men.

  38. @fuzzylogic:

    If there is anything that I agree with you, that would be the name handle that you choose to use: fuzzy logic. I see a number of non-sequiturs in your argument.

    For one thing, those things that you mentioned as you portray fratmen to be: a bunch of immature, testosterone-bursting twerps who just recently graduated from being clearasil kids to alpha-male wannabes that can’t stand above the rest and be his own person, are prolly true… perhaps for some fraternities, pseudo-frats, and pretenders.

    But really now, ALL of us fratmen? You speak as if you really have inside stories of ALL fraternities, mine included. Who are you to say that MY FRATERNITY is everything that you have spoken and implied as such?

    In just one brush stroke you have included MY FRATERNITY and judged me and my brods as one of those poor excuses of what fratmen should be. This is the reason why I hate these so-called fratmen with such passion — they give US a bad name.

    How sure are you that the center-piece of OUR brotherhood revolves around the process of whacking someone in the gluteus maximus, or even worse, whacking someone indiscriminately?

    You assume too much, boyo. You speak of matters that you yourself admit you hardly understand and yet you speak with such a finality and conviction as if you are an expert in the area in which you know nothing of.

    First of all allow me to shoot down your initial premise — that we recruit freshmen because they are easy prey, they are gullible.

    In My Fraternity, we don’t recruit freshmen. Sure, we make our presence felt and introduce our Fraternity to the new members of the student body through various activities sponsored and managed by the Fraternity — but we don’t recruit them. Freshmen are too raw to understand what college life truly is. They are easily subjected to irrational and impulsive behavior hence, they could easily make rash and stupid decisions that may well bring down our Fraternity and its reputation.

    You implied that our members lose their individuality and end up one of many clones? Gadz, dude, you really don’t know jack crap. If one of MY FRATERNITY’S objectives is to make us leaders of men (as reflected in our activities, fellowships, and achievements), I fail to reconcile that preposterous idea of yours that I and my brods have lost our individuality and are just mere clones. We DO recognize the individuality of each member and we believe that each of us should reach our full potential. Man, I’m so tempted to give you an intro that we would use when indoctrinate our neophytes during one of our rites… sadly, you’re not worth it. You are not even a U.P. student, much less a student of the College of Engineering of U.P. Diliman.

    Prestige. Here, I agree with you. It’s hard to see the whole grand scheme of things if you are not UP here with us to get that better bird’s eye-view. But why should I explain these in detail? You’re down there. You’re not one of us.

    My Fraternity gives scholarships to deserving brods provided they maintain the minimum requirements that we have stipulated. Now, tell me, do you think these parents of our brods who normally come from poor families (especially from the provinces) think that their son made the wrong choice in joining us?

    The Fraternity recognizes the fact that we are in U.P. to study and be better students and individuals. We owe our parents that much, but who says we can’t be a brod and be a more improved student, a much better individual?

    Do we help our brods after they graduate? Of course we do. Being an old Frat, it is obvious that we would have senior brods who would have high positions in private corporations and government. Moreso, we have brods who actually own companies.

    When we take in a brod and help him with his job, there is the assurance that this person has great potentials – U.P. graduate, from Engineering (considered as one of the toughest colleges to survive), has leadership skills, trained in a lot of life and professional skills based on the activities and traditions observed and practiced exclusively in OUR organization.

    And here’s the kicker: credibility. A brod will not dare goof off in his job that was accommodated to him. He should be ashamed of himself if he didn’t do his best and end up showing the brods that he was not worthy at all of the help that was given him. This is not a case of affirmative action. He has still to prove that he does deserve to have that job.

    Our rival frat – another vintage fraternity, despite the traditional animosity between us, we have still have that respect towards each other. It is NOT uncommon if some of us would take some of them (or vice versa) in a job application and hire these individuals from the rival frat. We know that this person would do his job well since if he fails miserably, the other fraternity will laugh at him at the expense of his own beloved frat.

    We have golf tourneys and drinking sessions (among others) between our frats and we try to outdo each other when it comes to achievements – in the end, the university still wins because they would benefit from all these things that we are doing.

    You talk about Red Cross, Caritas, etc. Do you think that our brods don’t contribute in helping these organizations or even other similar organizations? Are you sure that we don’t do our fair share?

    Our Fraternity has contributed a significant chunk in our respective paths to success. And with this success, others have benefited. If we are not successful, how could we significantly help others?

    Lastly, you said:
    “You guys are wasting your energy and sometimes wasting other people’s lives.”

    I forgive you, for you don’t know what you are saying.

  39. @Anti-hazing Mom:

    You said:
    “And when there are injuries from frat wars and death from hazings happen, a cloud of silence hover among the community of fraternities. Walang magsasalita, walang magsusumbong. What is so sacred about this?”

    Cloud of silence? From us? Why do you think are we silent? Silence from what? What makes you say so?

    What’s there for us to say? What’s there for us to report to the authorities? What exactly do you expect us to do?

    Just because of hearsay? What’s this? Are we in the time of Early Modern Europe from the 1400’s to the 1700’s when females were tried and burned at the stake for witchcraft and heresy just because of hearsays and mere perceptions and allegations not substantiated by facts and evidences as recognized by modern courts? Are you trying to be disturbingly funny? Are you one of those who would immediately take the moral high ground and arbitrarily condemn all of us because of mere semantic association (i.e., we call ourselves fratmen, they call themselves fratmen, ergo we are all the same)?

    If so, I suggest you step out of that holier-than-thou soap box since you would have been barking at the wrong tree — A VERY, VERY, VERY WRONG TREE.

    With all due respect ma’am, if we ARE to follow DUE PROCESS then we must have FIRST-HAND EVIDENCE. Otherwise, we are no better than those SELF-RIGHTEOUS IDIOTS during the time of the Great Burning in early modern Europe.

    YOU HAVE TO SHOW PROOF. Circumstantial evidences and MERE HEARSAY are inadmissible in court.

    For the sake of argument, let’s say that hazing does occur in some fraternities during their Initiation Rites. Do you actually think that we who are non-members of that frat are present and allowed to witness such rites?

    What we do in our OWN Fraternity is OUR BUSINESS. That is what is sacred for us. What other frats do is THEIR business too. Do you actually believe that we can tell other fraternities how to run their business? HAH! You gotta be kidding…

    It is not our responsibility to tell, much less inspect other frats exactly how they conduct their initiation rites and make sure that they don’t kill their neophytes.

    You yourself admitted that you do not have the desire to understand us and the reason behind our existence. In the same token, we have no desire to explain ourselves to the point of exposing things that are only available exclusively for our own members.

    Given that, unless you HAVE PROOF that members of a SPECIFIC FRATERNITY indulge in hazing, I suggest that you put a lid on sweeping statements and stop accusing ALL OF US of being as guilty and responsible for the death and injuries of others and by others whom we have no control of. You have judged us collectively and you are being unfair.

    WE CAN POLICE OUR OWN BRODS but it is stupid if not naive to think that we can police others.

    And furthermore, you said:
    “In this sense, you may not be the inflicter of pain nor murderers but you are ALL enablers.”

    Personally, I take offense of what you said. It’s like you’re saying that we are accessories and also responsible to the crime.

    How dare you.

  40. @Anti-hazing Mom: This is me, UP Fratman.

    You said:
    “And when there are injuries from frat wars and death from hazings happen, a cloud of silence hover among the community of fraternities. Walang magsasalita, walang magsusumbong. What is so sacred about this?”

    Cloud of silence? From us? Why do you think are we silent? Silence from what? What makes you say so?

    What’s there for us to say? What’s there for us to report to the authorities? What exactly do you expect us to do?

    Just because of hearsay? What’s this? Are we in the time of Early Modern Europe from the 1400’s to the 1700’s when females were tried and burned at the stake for witchcraft and heresy just because of hearsays and mere perceptions and allegations not substantiated by facts and evidences as recognized by modern courts? Are you trying to be disturbingly funny? Are you one of those who would immediately take the moral high ground and arbitrarily condemn all of us because of mere semantic association (i.e., we call ourselves fratmen, they call themselves fratmen, ergo we are all the same)?

    If so, I suggest you step out of that holier-than-thou soap box since you would have been barking at the wrong tree — A VERY, VERY, VERY WRONG TREE.

    With all due respect ma’am, if we ARE to follow DUE PROCESS then we must have FIRST-HAND EVIDENCE. Otherwise, we are no better than those SELF-RIGHTEOUS IDIOTS during the time of the Great Burning in early modern Europe.

    YOU HAVE TO SHOW PROOF. Circumstantial evidences and MERE HEARSAY are inadmissible in court.

    For the sake of argument, let’s say that hazing does occur in some fraternities during their Initiation Rites. Do you actually think that we who are non-members of that frat are present and allowed to witness such rites?

    What we do in our OWN Fraternity is OUR BUSINESS. That is what is sacred for us. What other frats do is THEIR business too. Do you actually believe that we can tell other fraternities how to run their business? HAH! You gotta be kidding…

    It is not our responsibility to tell, much less inspect other frats exactly how they conduct their initiation rites and make sure that they don’t kill their neophytes.

    You yourself admitted that you do not have the desire to understand us and the reason behind our existence. In the same token, we have no desire to explain ourselves to the point of exposing things that are only available exclusively for our own members.

    Given that, unless you HAVE PROOF that members of a SPECIFIC FRATERNITY indulge in hazing, I suggest that you put a lid on sweeping statements and stop accusing ALL OF US of being as guilty and responsible for the death and injuries of others and by others whom we have no control of. You have judged us collectively and you are being unfair.

    WE CAN POLICE OUR OWN BRODS but it is stupid if not naive to think that we can police others.

    And furthermore, you said:
    “In this sense, you may not be the inflicter of pain nor murderers but you are ALL enablers.”

    Personally, I take offense of what you said. It’s like you’re saying that we are accessories and also responsible to the crime.

    How dare you.

  41. @fuzzylogic:

    If there is anything that I agree with you, that would be the name handle that you choose to use: fuzzy logic. I see a number of non-sequiturs in your argument.

    For one thing, those things that you mentioned as you portray fratmen to be: a bunch of immature, testosterone-bursting twerps who just recently graduated from being clearasil kids to alpha-male wannabes that can’t stand above the rest and be his own person, are prolly true… perhaps for some fraternities, pseudo-frats, and pretenders.

    But really now, ALL of us fratmen? You speak as if you really have inside stories of ALL fraternities, mine included. Who are you to say that MY FRATERNITY is everything that you have spoken and implied as such?

    In just one brush stroke you have included MY FRATERNITY and judged me and my brods as one of those poor excuses of what fratmen should be. This is the reason why I hate these so-called fratmen with such passion — they give US a bad name.

    How sure are you that the center-piece of OUR brotherhood revolves around the process of whacking someone in the gluteus maximus, or even worse, whacking someone indiscriminately?

    You assume too much, boyo. You speak of matters that you yourself admit you hardly understand and yet you speak with such a finality and conviction as if you are an expert in the area in which you know nothing of.

    First of all allow me to shoot down your initial premise — that we recruit freshmen because they are easy prey, they are gullible.

    In My Fraternity, we don’t recruit freshmen. Sure, we make our presence felt and introduce our Fraternity to the new members of the student body through various activities sponsored and managed by the Fraternity — but we don’t recruit them. Freshmen are too raw to understand what college life truly is. They are easily subjected to irrational and impulsive behavior hence, they could easily make rash and stupid decisions that may well bring down our Fraternity and its reputation.

    You implied that our members lose their individuality and end up one of many clones? Gadz, dude, you really don’t know jack crap. If one of MY FRATERNITY’S objectives is to make us leaders of men (as reflected in our activities, fellowships, and achievements), I fail to reconcile that preposterous idea of yours that I and my brods have lost our individuality and are just mere clones. We DO recognize the individuality of each member and we believe that each of us should reach our full potential. Man, I’m so tempted to give you an intro that we would use when indoctrinate our neophytes during one of our rites… sadly, you’re not worth it. You are not even a U.P. student, much less a student of the College of Engineering of U.P. Diliman.

    Prestige. Here, I agree with you. It’s hard to see the whole grand scheme of things if you are not UP here with us to get that better bird’s eye-view. But why should I explain these in detail? You’re down there. You’re not one of us.

    My Fraternity gives scholarships to deserving brods provided they maintain the minimum requirements that we have stipulated. Now, tell me, do you think these parents of our brods who normally come from poor families (especially from the provinces) think that their son made the wrong choice in joining us?

    The Fraternity recognizes the fact that we are in U.P. to study and be better students and individuals. We owe our parents that much, but who says we can’t be a brod and be a more improved student, a much better individual?

    Do we help our brods after they graduate? Of course we do. Being an old Frat, it is obvious that we would have senior brods who would have high positions in private corporations and government. Moreso, we have brods who actually own companies.

    When we take in a brod and help him with his job, there is the assurance that this person has great potentials – U.P. graduate, from Engineering (considered as one of the toughest colleges to survive), has leadership skills, trained in a lot of life and professional skills based on the activities and traditions observed and practiced exclusively in OUR organization.

    And here’s the kicker: credibility. A brod will not dare goof off in his job that was accommodated to him. He should be ashamed of himself if he didn’t do his best and end up showing the brods that he was not worthy at all of the help that was given him. This is not a case of affirmative action. He has still to prove that he does deserve to have that job.

    Our rival frat – another vintage fraternity, despite the traditional animosity between us, we have still have that respect towards each other. It is NOT uncommon if some of us would take some of them (or vice versa) in a job application and hire these individuals from the rival frat. We know that this person would do his job well since if he fails miserably, the other fraternity will laugh at him at the expense of his own beloved frat.

    We have golf tourneys and drinking sessions (among others) between our frats and we try to outdo each other when it comes to achievements – in the end, the university still wins because they would benefit from all these things that we are doing.

    You talk about Red Cross, Caritas, etc. Do you think that our brods don’t contribute in helping these organizations or even other similar organizations? Are you sure that we don’t do our fair share?

    Our Fraternity has contributed a significant chunk in our respective paths to success. And with this success, others have benefited. If we are not successful, how could we significantly help others?

    Lastly, you said:
    “You guys are wasting your energy and sometimes wasting other people’s lives.”

    I forgive you, for you don’t know what you are saying.

    How would you feel if foreigners look down on you, disrespected, or insulted you just because you have identified yourself as a Filipino? You would later find out that these foreigners have a bad perception of Filipinos as they based this perception on encounters and testimonies that they got involving Filipinos.

    How would you guys feel?

    Just because I’m a fratman, should I and the rest of my brods who represent ONLY OUR FRATERNITY (and NOT ALL self-proclaimed FRATMEN) have to suffer the ignominy of being associated with the bastardized and corrupted forms of some fraternities, pseudo-frats, and pretenders?

    That is so bloody unfair.

  42. Hey, unsentpostcards.

    I finally realized that you have barred me from publishing my comments.

    Fine. I respect that though I cannot fully understand why you would do such a thing. Funny how you allow anti-hazing mom and fuzzylogic to publish their comments and attack my points and not allow me to defend myself.

    Really nifty. Speaks tons of how you handle this issue. A reflection of how you belong to those with myopic points of view.

    By the way, you are not the only one who can put up sites like this. I can always refer others to your website and make them realize how you FAIRLY HANDLE both sides of the argument.

    Email me if you want an honest to goodness debate. Thanks!

  43. @Anti-hazing Mom:

    You said:
    “And when there are injuries from frat wars and death from hazings happen, a cloud of silence hover among the community of fraternities. Walang magsasalita, walang magsusumbong. What is so sacred about this?”

    Cloud of silence? From us? Why do you think are we silent? Silence from what? What makes you say so?

    What’s there for us to say? What’s there for us to report to the authorities? What exactly do you expect us to do?

    Just because of hearsay? What’s this? Are we in the time of Early Modern Europe from the 1400’s to the 1700’s when females were tried and burned at the stake for witchcraft and heresy just because of hearsays and mere perceptions and allegations not substantiated by facts and evidences as recognized by modern courts? Are you trying to be disturbingly funny? Are you one of those who would immediately take the moral high ground and arbitrarily condemn all of us because of mere semantic association (i.e., we call ourselves fratmen, they call themselves fratmen, ergo we are all the same)?

    If so, I suggest you step out of that holier-than-thou soap box since you would have been barking at the wrong tree — A VERY, VERY, VERY WRONG TREE.

    With all due respect ma’am, if we ARE to follow DUE PROCESS then we must have FIRST-HAND EVIDENCE. Otherwise, we are no better than those SELF-RIGHTEOUS IDIOTS during the time of the Great Burning in early modern Europe.

    YOU HAVE TO SHOW PROOF. Circumstantial evidences and MERE HEARSAY are inadmissible in court.

    For the sake of argument, let’s say that hazing does occur in some fraternities during their Initiation Rites. Do you actually think that we who are non-members of that frat are present and allowed to witness such rites?

    What we do in our OWN Fraternity is OUR BUSINESS. That is what is sacred for us. What other frats do is THEIR business too. Do you actually believe that we can tell other fraternities how to run their business? HAH! You gotta be kidding…

    It is not our responsibility to tell, much less inspect other frats exactly how they conduct their initiation rites and make sure that they don’t kill their neophytes.

    You yourself admitted that you do not have the desire to understand us and the reason behind our existence. In the same token, we have no desire to explain ourselves to the point of exposing things that are only available exclusively for our own members.

    Given that, unless you HAVE PROOF that members of a SPECIFIC FRATERNITY indulge in hazing, I suggest that you put a lid on sweeping statements and stop accusing ALL OF US of being as guilty and responsible for the death and injuries of others and by others whom we have no control of. You have judged us collectively and you are being unfair.

    WE CAN POLICE OUR OWN BRODS but it is stupid if not naive to think that we can police others.

    And furthermore, you said:
    “In this sense, you may not be the inflicter of pain nor murderers but you are ALL enablers.”

    Personally, I take offense of what you said. It’s like you’re saying that we are accessories and also responsible to the crime.

    How dare you.

    — UP Fratman

  44. @fuzzylogic:

    If there is anything that I agree with you, that would be the name handle that you choose to use: fuzzy logic. I see a number of non-sequiturs in your argument.

    For one thing, those things that you mentioned as you portray fratmen to be: a bunch of immature, testosterone-bursting twerps who just recently graduated from being clearasil kids to alpha-male wannabes that can’t stand above the rest and be his own person, are prolly true… perhaps for some fraternities, pseudo-frats, and pretenders.

    But really now, ALL of us fratmen? You speak as if you really have inside stories of ALL fraternities, mine included. Who are you to say that MY FRATERNITY is everything that you have spoken and implied as such?

    In just one brush stroke you have included MY FRATERNITY and judged me and my brods as one of those poor excuses of what fratmen should be. This is the reason why I hate these so-called fratmen with such passion — they give US a bad name.

    How sure are you that the center-piece of OUR brotherhood revolves around the process of whacking someone in the gluteus maximus, or even worse, whacking someone indiscriminately?

    You assume too much, boyo. You speak of matters that you yourself admit you hardly understand and yet you speak with such a finality and conviction as if you are an expert in the area in which you know nothing of.

  45. First of all allow me to shoot down your initial premise — that we recruit freshmen because they are easy prey, they are gullible.

    In My Fraternity, we don’t recruit freshmen. Sure, we make our presence felt and introduce our Fraternity to the new members of the student body through various activities sponsored and managed by the Fraternity — but we don’t recruit them. Freshmen are too raw to understand what college life truly is. They are easily subjected to irrational and impulsive behavior hence, they could easily make rash and stupid decisions that may well bring down our Fraternity and its reputation.

    You implied that our members lose their individuality and end up one of many clones? Gadz, dude, you really don’t know jack crap. If one of MY FRATERNITY’S objectives is to make us leaders of men (as reflected in our activities, fellowships, and achievements), I fail to reconcile that preposterous idea of yours that I and my brods have lost our individuality and are just mere clones. We DO recognize the individuality of each member and we believe that each of us should reach our full potential. Man, I’m so tempted to give you an intro that we would use when indoctrinate our neophytes during one of our rites… sadly, you’re not worth it. You are not even a U.P. student, much less a student of the College of Engineering of U.P. Diliman.

    Prestige. Here, I agree with you. It’s hard to see the whole grand scheme of things if you are not UP here with us to get that better bird’s eye-view. But why should I explain these in detail? You’re down there. You’re not one of us.

    My Fraternity gives scholarships to deserving brods provided they maintain the minimum requirements that we have stipulated. Now, tell me, do you think these parents of our brods who normally come from poor families (especially from the provinces) think that their son made the wrong choice in joining us?

    The Fraternity recognizes the fact that we are in U.P. to study and be better students and individuals. We owe our parents that much, but who says we can’t be a brod and be a more improved student, a much better individual?

    Do we help our brods after they graduate? Of course we do. Being an old Frat, it is obvious that we would have senior brods who would have high positions in private corporations and government. Moreso, we have brods who actually own companies.

    When we take in a brod and help him with his job, there is the assurance that this person has great potentials – U.P. graduate, from Engineering (considered as one of the toughest colleges to survive), has leadership skills, trained in a lot of life and professional skills based on the activities and traditions observed and practiced exclusively in OUR organization.

    And here’s the kicker: credibility. A brod will not dare goof off in his job that was accommodated to him. He should be ashamed of himself if he didn’t do his best and end up showing the brods that he was not worthy at all of the help that was given him. This is not a case of affirmative action. He has still to prove that he does deserve to have that job.

    Our rival frat – another vintage fraternity, despite the traditional animosity between us, we have still have that respect towards each other. It is NOT uncommon if some of us would take some of them (or vice versa) in a job application and hire these individuals from the rival frat. We know that this person would do his job well since if he fails miserably, the other fraternity will laugh at him at the expense of his own beloved frat.

    We have golf tourneys and drinking sessions (among others) between our frats and we try to outdo each other when it comes to achievements – in the end, the university still wins because they would benefit from all these things that we are doing.

    You talk about Red Cross, Caritas, etc. Do you think that our brods don’t contribute in helping these organizations or even other similar organizations? Are you sure that we don’t do our fair share?

    Our Fraternity has contributed a significant chunk in our respective paths to success. And with this success, others have benefited. If we are not successful, how could we significantly help others?

    Lastly, you said:
    “You guys are wasting your energy and sometimes wasting other people’s lives.”

    I forgive you, for you don’t know what you are saying.

  46. First of all allow me to shoot down your initial premise — that we recruit freshmen because they are easy prey, they are gullible.

    In My Fraternity, we don’t recruit freshmen. Sure, we make our presence felt and introduce our Fraternity to the new members of the student body through various activities sponsored and managed by the Fraternity — but we don’t recruit them. Freshmen are too raw to understand what college life truly is. They are easily subjected to irrational and impulsive behavior hence, they could easily make rash and stupid decisions that may well bring down our Fraternity and its reputation.

    You implied that our members lose their individuality and end up one of many clones? Gadz, dude, you really don’t know jack crap. If one of MY FRATERNITY’S objectives is to make us leaders of men (as reflected in our activities, fellowships, and achievements), I fail to reconcile that preposterous idea of yours that I and my brods have lost our individuality and are just mere clones. We DO recognize the individuality of each member and we believe that each of us should reach our full potential. Man, I’m so tempted to give you an intro that we would use when indoctrinate our neophytes during one of our rites… sadly, you’re not worth it. You are not even a U.P. student, much less a student of the College of Engineering of U.P. Diliman.

    Prestige. Here, I agree with you. It’s hard to see the whole grand scheme of things if you are not UP here with us to get that better bird’s eye-view. But why should I explain these in detail? You’re down there. You’re not one of us.

    My Fraternity gives scholarships to deserving brods provided they maintain the minimum requirements that we have stipulated. Now, tell me, do you think these parents of our brods who normally come from poor families (especially from the provinces) think that their son made the wrong choice in joining us?

    The Fraternity recognizes the fact that we are in U.P. to study and be better students and individuals. We owe our parents that much, but who says we can’t be a brod and be a more improved student, a much better individual?

    Do we help our brods after they graduate? Of course we do. Being an old Frat, it is obvious that we would have senior brods who would have high positions in private corporations and government. Moreso, we have brods who actually own companies.

    When we take in a brod and help him with his job, there is the assurance that this person has great potentials – U.P. graduate, from Engineering (considered as one of the toughest colleges to survive), has leadership skills, trained in a lot of life and professional skills based on the activities and traditions observed and practiced exclusively in OUR organization.

    And here’s the kicker: credibility. A brod will not dare goof off in his job that was accommodated to him. He should be ashamed of himself if he didn’t do his best and end up showing the brods that he was not worthy at all of the help that was given him. This is not a case of affirmative action. He has still to prove that he does deserve to have that job.

    Our rival frat – another vintage fraternity, despite the traditional animosity between us, we have still have that respect towards each other. It is NOT uncommon if some of us would take some of them (or vice versa) in a job application and hire these individuals from the rival frat. We know that this person would do his job well since if he fails miserably, the other fraternity will laugh at him at the expense of his own beloved frat.

    We have golf tourneys and drinking sessions (among others) between our frats and we try to outdo each other when it comes to achievements – in the end, the university still wins because they would benefit from all these things that we are doing.

  47. You talk about Red Cross, Caritas, etc. Do you think that our brods don’t contribute in helping these organizations or even other similar organizations? Are you sure that we don’t do our fair share?

    Our Fraternity has contributed a significant chunk in our respective paths to success. And with this success, others have benefited. If we are not successful, how could we significantly help others?

    Lastly, you said:
    “You guys are wasting your energy and sometimes wasting other people’s lives.”

    I forgive you, for you don’t know what you are saying.

    How would you feel if foreigners look down on you, disrespected, or insulted you just because you have identified yourself as a Filipino? You would later find out that these foreigners have a bad perception of Filipinos as they based this perception on encounters and testimonies that they got involving Filipinos.

    How would you guys feel?

    Just because I’m a fratman, should I and the rest of my brods who represent ONLY OUR FRATERNITY (and NOT ALL self-proclaimed FRATMEN) have to suffer the ignominy of being associated with the bastardized and corrupted forms of some fraternities, pseudo-frats, and pretenders?

    That is so bloody unfair.

  48. @Anti-hazing Mom:

    You said:
    “And when there are injuries from frat wars and death from hazings happen, a cloud of silence hover among the community of fraternities. Walang magsasalita, walang magsusumbong. What is so sacred about this?”

    Cloud of silence? From us? Why do you think are we silent? Silence from what? What makes you say so?

    What’s there for us to say? What’s there for us to report to the authorities? What exactly do you expect us to do?

    Just because of hearsay? What’s this? Are we in the time of Early Modern Europe from the 1400’s to the 1700’s when females were tried and burned at the stake for witchcraft and heresy just because of hearsays and mere perceptions and allegations not substantiated by facts and evidences as recognized by modern courts? Are you trying to be disturbingly funny? Are you one of those who would immediately take the moral high ground and arbitrarily condemn all of us because of mere semantic association (i.e., we call ourselves fratmen, they call themselves fratmen, ergo we are all the same)?

    If so, I suggest you step out of that holier-than-thou soap box since you would have been barking at the wrong tree — A VERY, VERY, VERY WRONG TREE.

  49. @Anti-hazing Mom:

    You said:
    “And when there are injuries from frat wars and death from hazings happen, a cloud of silence hover among the community of fraternities. Walang magsasalita, walang magsusumbong. What is so sacred about this?”

    Cloud of silence? From us? Why do you think are we silent? Silence from what? What makes you say so?

    What’s there for us to say? What’s there for us to report to the authorities? What exactly do you expect us to do?

  50. @Anti-hazing Mom:

    You said:
    “And when there are injuries from frat wars and death from hazings happen, a cloud of silence hover among the community of fraternities. Walang magsasalita, walang magsusumbong. What is so sacred about this?”

    Cloud of silence? From us? Why do you think are we silent? Silence from what? What makes you say so?

    What’s there for us to say? What’s there for us to report to the authorities? What exactly do you expect us to do?

    Just because of hearsay? What’s this? Are we in the time of Early Modern Europe from the 1400’s to the 1700’s when females were tried and burned at the stake for witchcraft and heresy just because of hearsays and mere perceptions and allegations not substantiated by facts and evidences as recognized by modern courts? Are you trying to be disturbingly funny? Are you one of those who would immediately take the moral high ground and arbitrarily condemn all of us because of mere semantic association (i.e., we call ourselves fratmen, they call themselves fratmen, ergo we are all the same)?

  51. For Anti-hazing Mom:

    You said:
    “And when there are injuries from frat wars and death from hazings happen, a cloud of silence hover among the community of fraternities. Walang magsasalita, walang magsusumbong. What is so sacred about this?”

    Cloud of silence? From us? Why do you think are we silent? Silence from what? What makes you say so?

    What’s there for us to say? What’s there for us to report to the authorities? What exactly do you expect us to do?

    Just because of hearsay? What’s this? Are we in the time of Early Modern Europe from the 1400’s to the 1700’s when females were tried and burned at the stake for witchcraft and heresy just because of hearsays and mere perceptions and allegations not substantiated by facts and evidences as recognized by modern courts? Are you trying to be disturbingly funny? Are you one of those who would immediately take the moral high ground and arbitrarily condemn all of us because of mere semantic association (i.e., we call ourselves fratmen, they call themselves fratmen, ergo we are all the same)?

  52. @Anti-hazing Mom:

    Cloud of silence? From us? Why do you think are we silent? Silence from what? What makes you say so?

    What’s there for us to say? What’s there for us to report to the authorities? What exactly do you expect us to do?

    Just because of hearsay? What’s this? Are we in the time of Early Modern Europe from the 1400’s to the 1700’s when females were tried and burned at the stake for witchcraft and heresy just because of hearsays and mere perceptions and allegations not substantiated by facts and evidences as recognized by modern courts? Are you trying to be disturbingly funny? Are you one of those who would immediately take the moral high ground and arbitrarily condemn all of us because of mere semantic association (i.e., we call ourselves fratmen, they call themselves fratmen, ergo we are all the same)?

  53. If so, I suggest you step out of that holier-than-thou soap box since you would have been barking at the wrong tree — A VERY, VERY, VERY WRONG TREE.

    With all due respect ma’am, if we ARE to follow DUE PROCESS then we must have FIRST-HAND EVIDENCE. Otherwise, we are no better than those SELF-RIGHTEOUS IDIOTS during the time of the Great Burning in early modern Europe.

    YOU HAVE TO SHOW PROOF. Circumstantial evidences and MERE HEARSAY are inadmissible in court.

    For the sake of argument, let’s say that hazing does occur in some fraternities during their Initiation Rites. Do you actually think that we who are non-members of that frat are present and allowed to witness such rites?

  54. What we do in our OWN Fraternity is OUR BUSINESS. That is what is sacred for us. What other frats do is THEIR business too. Do you actually believe that we can tell other fraternities how to run their business? HAH! You gotta be kidding…

    It is not our responsibility to tell, much less inspect other frats exactly how they conduct their initiation rites and make sure that they don’t kill their neophytes.

    You yourself admitted that you do not have the desire to understand us and the reason behind our existence. In the same token, we have no desire to explain ourselves to the point of exposing things that are only available exclusively for our own members.

  55. Given that, unless you HAVE PROOF that members of a SPECIFIC FRATERNITY indulge in hazing, I suggest that you put a lid on sweeping statements and stop accusing ALL OF US of being as guilty and responsible for the death and injuries of others and by others whom we have no control of. You have judged us collectively and you are being unfair.

    WE CAN POLICE OUR OWN BRODS but it is stupid if not naive to think that we can police others.

    And furthermore, you said:
    “In this sense, you may not be the inflicter of pain nor murderers but you are ALL enablers.”

    Personally, I take offense of what you said. It’s like you’re saying that we are accessories and also responsible to the crime.

    How dare you.

  56. i think correlations exhibited a very objective response to fuzzylogic’s tirade above. iread that correlations’ earlier comments are definitely not pro-fraternity but she has the ability to cut through all the noise around this issue and pinpoint the real specific problem…that of getting justice for one young man’s death.

    getting issues all mixed up will not contribute to the positive progress towards solving this death and meting just punsihment to those who caused this death.

    there are thousands of car accidents worldwide, do we now say “ban the manufacture of cars”?

    its not getting frats to exist or not. its about regulating them. to say that those who join frats for very lame reasons is bigotry in the reverse when some fratmen refer to non-fratmen as barbarians.

    teenagers make mistakes also due to peer pressure and this doesn’t have to come from a peer of fraternity brothers…

    UP Argonaut 86 call to avoid generalities and look at the specific issue echoes the last commentary from correlations and up argonaut 90…

    let’s focus on the cris mendez murder resolution people.

  57. Le me break down what the discussions are all about since the news about chris mendez broke out. Each issue warrants separate discussions.

    One issue: chris mendez case.

    My take: Justice for Chris Mendez. Go after those criminals (I’m not saying it’s Sigma Rhoans). Because “smart” people invoked their right to silence, the burden of proof is now on the ‘barbarians.” Go, go, pinoy policemen! We are rallying behind you. It’s now time to employ your supersleuth capabilties to pin down the “smart” criminals, ala CSI. Good luck!

    Another separate issue: relevance of frats in our society today–to be or not to be.

    My take: Let them exist; this is a free country. If they want to get involved in worthwhile or stupid activities, that’s their business. As long they don’t hurt people and get involved in criminal activities, I don’t see a reason to abolish ALL of them.

    Another separate issue: fraternity-related killings and violence.

    My take: We can NOT ignore the FACT that these do exist. Each case has it’s own set of criminals; each case warrants it’s own investigation. However, we can put behind bars all the criminals involved in each case but as a society, what should we do to protect our children who really are prone to joining these groups? I don’t think we should wait until another child gets hurt or killed again. Anti-hazing law is one thing, more regulation on the university level is another, demanding transparencies from frats is another, abolishing frats is another. I don’t know which of these is the best, but these are options worth discussing as a matter of national interest, for it is the welfare of our children which is involved. It should be carefully done, though, lest it becomes a witchhunt but SOMETHING should be done and it is long overdue. If it requires investigating each frat in existence in the Philippines in terms of the kind of activities that they get involved in, then so be it. If we don’t do anything as a society to stop this cycle of violence, then we are all enablers.

    To UP Argonaut 86:

    Hi, antihazing dad. You sound like my husband who by the way is a UP Law fratman. When this Chris Mendez case broke out, this is what he blurted out: “dapat kasi sa legs at braso lang.” Binatukan ko nga. Isa ring ENABLER! I still love him to bits though. Kidding aside, we discuss these issues a lot but until now, I can’t get him to speak if he was involved in frat rumbles or hazing during our time in UP (even with threats of separation). Damn!

    Yes, you are right that it is wrong of me to make a sweeping generalization on all fraternities. I do not see/hear the likes of Dominican Lay Fraternities involved in frat wars and hazing. But you know I’m talking about Philippine frats.

    My point is — these things are common knowledge among barbarians and fratmen alike. This won’t stand in court, but as a matter of discussion, you know what I’m talking about. Unfortunately, the burden of proof is on the us, the “barbarians” for there will NEVER be a fratman who will admit to these acts violence. And this is the fraternity mentality that scares me. (I use the term ‘fraternity’ instead of ‘fraternal’ to describe your culture because I don’t believe there is nothing fraternal or brotherly on doing ANY harm on your brother or COVERING UP for the crimes of your brothers.)

    Wheel of justice in the Philippines is laughable. Rumbles happen in broad daylight, and they are still “alleged” and “hearsays.” I have witnessed a number of frat rumbles in UP Mla during my time, and when we went to admin/police to give report as witnesses, the occurrence was still called “alleged.” As predictable as fratmen were, the next day, my friend had a broken side window, “allegedly” done by one of the fratmen involved in the rumble.

    Someone here mentioned the movie “A Few Good Men.” In the movie, it was not recommended that Marine Corps be abolished, but the involved officers were tried in a court martial.

    And that’s the point, the military as an institution has a court martial to look into these occurrences in the military — whether they are in the army, navy, air force. The frat community doesn’t have a similar one. I know there are alliances of frats but what are these groups doing? If they want to be proactive about the situation, aside from condemning the crimes, they can recommend standards among frats or even conduct their own investigation on the matter and file charges against the offending frats in a civil court. You have to weed out frats that place the whole frat community in a bad light. Whether you admit it or not, you do care about how the public perceives you. And the public perception is formed by what they see and hear — the secret handshakes, the tambayans, the outstanding alumni, the outreach projects and unfortunately, news on hazings and frat rumbles.

  58. Hi, UP Argonaut 90! I see that you are one passionate fratman. Did I hit a sensitive chord there? I’M VERY, VERY SCARED. Am I now in your hit list or should I expect one of your neophytes to scratch my car now? Just kidding. I’m not trying to pick up a fight with you or anybody but just to drive some points in the discussion, so calm down.

    I do agree with you on some points — yes to due process! Bring to justice all those who are involved in the frat-related crimes. And if your frat is one of those who keep the ideals of what a real frat is all about, then I’m happy for you!

    But I think you should channel your anger not to us barbarians but to those groups that give your frat community a bad rap. It is unfortunate that your frats shining achievements are overshadowed by these news on hazings and frat wars but I only have the frat community to blame for that. You haven’t done enough to prevent these crimes. And by not doing enough, the frat community ENABLES criminals to taint what is supposed to be frats’ sacred traditions.

    You can do a lot to stop this cycle of frat crimes and violence and as UP frats, you are in an enviable position to influence other groups/frats.

    And yes, I dare you. Do something concrete that other frats can look up to. Form alliances to bring erring frats down, bring attention to these frat-related crimes and violence, promulgate standards. Only then will your frat’s statement will be true and I quote: “The fraternity commits itself to the College of Engineering in its avowed purpose to enhance the engineering profession and the promotion of the general interest of the studentry.” Otherwise, you should change the last part of your statement as “promotion of the interest of the members of our fraternity only.”

  59. Hello Anti Hazing Mom!

    You can RELAX…as I am definitely not your hubby who you said belongs to a UP Law Fraternity.

    I belong to a UP Engineering Fraternity…perhaps your husband can tell you offline which engineering fraternity harkens itself to a mythical band of Greek Heroes which I took upon when coming up with a pen name for this forum.

    Anyway, I was also the one who mentioned the movie A Few Good Men as I try to make a point…a specific case calls for a specific action. It’s a call for rationale thinking versus bandwagon or lynch mob.

    Correlations also stressed that the issue is not to have fraternities exist or not to exist.

    I believe some of the cooler heads in this forum, including you, agree on this point.

    The US Military has a military court that ensured justice prevailed (as per the movie)…UP have an Inter Fraternity Council and then a UP Student Disciplinary Tribunal.

    Again, one can argue whether these organization indeed are effective…and then one can extrapolate whether the Justice System of the entire country works…and then we get lost in an even larger sea of debate and poor Cris, and his specific death or murder case, gets lost in the brouhaha.

    So even among UP Fraternity men who have read or contributed to this BLOG…I would suggest we cool down, everyone of us, and don’t make this exchange of ideas become so polarized that it becomes increasingly imminently prejudicial between Fratmen and non-Fratmen.

    Let’s avoid thinking and talking as if this issue is between Fratmen and Non-Fratmen. At the very least, we should collectively call ourselves as members of the UP academic community (yes, even if some of us has already left the academe), and look at this issue as one collective body…with no labeling and so on.

    Us Fratmen has a stake in resolving this incident…and at least for our Fraternity, we have taken further steps in rethinking our own processes to ensure that we continue to be relevant to UP Engineering Students, the UP community, the nation.

  60. You said:
    “Hi, UP Argonaut 90! I see that you are one passionate fratman. Did I hit a sensitive chord there? I’M VERY, VERY SCARED. Am I now in your hit list or should I expect one of your neophytes to scratch my car now? Just kidding. I’m not trying to pick up a fight with you or anybody but just to drive some points in the discussion, so calm down.”

    Scared you say? *rolls eyes*

    Relax. Putting you in a hit list or having neophytes scratch your car is a conduct unbecoming of an Argonaut. I’m sorry to disappoint you missy, you have mistook me and my brods for some gang members and pretenders. Juveniles we are not. Berks and idiots we definitely are not.

    You said:
    “But I think you should channel your anger not to us barbarians but to those groups that give your frat community a bad rap. It is unfortunate that your frats shining achievements are overshadowed by these news on hazings and frat wars but I only have the frat community to blame for that. You haven’t done enough to prevent these crimes. And by not doing enough, the frat community ENABLES criminals to taint what is supposed to be frats’ sacred traditions.”

    My angst is both on self-righteous ignorant non-fratmen and people who give the terms “fraternity” and “fratmen” a bad rep. We may not be able to stop these crimes from happening but as far as my brods are concerned, we never killed anyone. We haven’t done anything that led to the death of anyone, be he a neophyte, another fratman, or a non-fratman.

    What makes it problematic is that we are not empowered to control these scumbags and give them the appropriate sanctions and consequences should they defy the law.

    Sadly, the most the University can do is to not officially recognize the group and expel the students FOUND GUILTY of such crimes. Even when they are not recognized, they still thrive and go underground. So, how can you give sanctions to a group that does not officially exist? They are no better than a glamorized version of Sigue-Sigue Sputnik and Batang City Jail gangs.

    Touching these riff-raffs is not worth it. To do so, would just expose our resident brods as targets. Imagine a fish-ball vendor or a juvenile from god-knows-where taking a hit on our brods just because their GANGMATES (I steadfastly REFUSE to recognize these juveniles as one of our kind) from U.P. told them to do so. They have a different culture and a sick sense of fraternal brotherhood.

    My resident brods are too busy to find time to engage these unworthy buffoons. Being in Engineering is tough. To survive is even tougher, and the toughest part is to be an Engineering graduate of the University of the Philippines.

    Some fraternities are just a tad higher, but to me they are still scumbags. They have no worthwhile projects, they pick up fights just to be recognized, and their alumni can’t control them enough to set these berks straight.

    The most that we can do is set an example for others to emulate. Unfortunately, some of them don’t give a crap. They would rather bring us down in the gutter with them and their pathetic existence.

    My Fraternity and its traditional opponent are fortunate enough to have the necessary back door channels so that frictions between us are kept at a minimum, manageable level. We try to channel our rivalry into a constructive one. As a result, the College and the University still end up as the happy beneficiaries. You can always as Dean Gev about it.

    When members from these two frats meet after college, you will be surprised the way we see and treat each other. There may be some personal grudges directed at specific persons here and there, but as a whole, the respect of the other frat is present. It is not uncommon to have rounds of beer as we laugh and share our experiences together.

    There is the UP Barkada where alumni and heads of various UP Fraternities come together and address issues concerning the Fraternity Community. It is the alumni of each fraternity who can significantly help. That being said, I’m proud that our alumni brods are not wanting in this department. IT IS CRITICAL THAT THE ALUMNI GUIDE AND POLICE THEIR RESIDENT BRODS. Any erring member should be expelled and be brought to the proper authorities. They should not be cuddled. We have by-laws. We have our Constitution. It is IMPERATIVE that we follow the proper code and the proper conduct.

    I cannot say the same thing for other self-styled fraternities.

    There are only two things that I can think of that can help alleviate this problematic situation:

    1. Give the Anti-Hazing Law real teeth and have the appropriate institutionalized enforcers well equipped in bringing down the culprits. If people are witnessing these acts of crime, they should immediately inform the proper authorities for immediate action. I would love to see these scumbags caught in the act.

    2. Inform the boys that real well-meaning fraternities do not recruit highschool kids. If they go to college and they get to be recruited by fratmen, they should be smart enough to do their own research about that specific fraternity. Look at their history. What have they done for the community, for the school? Do they have a history of frat-related deaths? What has that organization done to its members in order to be better individuals?

    The key thing here is awareness. I would rather see a young man not join a fraternity than him joining one that PRETENDS to be an honest-to-goodness fraternity.

    If my son would join a fraternity it would only be mine simply because it is the only Fraternity I know and trust. It would be easy to guide him and make a real Fratman out of him. He has his Grandfather, Father, and his Godfathers there for him.

    I will not let him settle for anything less.

    That would be disgraceful.

    UP Argonaut 90 aka UP Fratman

  61. Thanks to Alumnus, anti-hazing mom, et al. for a lively discussion – don’t we love the interweb? The source of and solution to our most empassioned arguments 🙂

  62. @UP fratman

    First of all, thank you for reading the post in the first place – seriously. God, what a lengthy reply to my “fuzzy” logic. It must have moved mountains – the truth bites in the end. If my butt were whacked repeatedly (and insensibly) as your butt was (by lunatics who think it is a rational way to screen for loyalty or comittment), I would have said the same things you said. In some aspects, UP fratman – we’re the same. I admire you for your conviction, your courage to stand for what you believe you think is right – we have something in common – this world is, after all, made up of people like you and me – both with contrasting views and noone would give in. I would like to apologize for my “ignorance” that somehow enraged you (that was an unintentional side-effect). The loyalty, commitment, devotion to (and willingness to blend and disappear into) a microgroup – our world sometimes needs people who would follow, be blindly obedient, and imbibe a programming. Too bad, these things come with too much fanaticism for some people. But, hey, we’re way out of the line here – there’s a dead guy and I think we ought to re-think the uncivilized manner in which young men like cris are being christened to fraternities or sororities. I don’t dislike (or care about) fraternities or whatever they seek to achieve in this world, I just hate the methodology most of these groups employ. People die, UP fratman, people die. I don’t need to mention that for the third time to have that stamped in your head and for you to listen to people like me. Open your mind. Can you (as an individual, forget your group for awhile) make a difference in helping stop these senseless deaths. That’s what you and I want, isn’t it? No more deaths? What do you propose? If you ask me, I have no idea, except that I want that violent whacking procedure out of the methodology of your screening – this method have claimed too much lives already.

  63. Hi to all,

    I am also a fratman…but I have burned my bridges to the past. My advocacy now is to help my fellow fratmen who are struggling with the stigma of this evil culture.

    “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.” Matthew 6:24

    As an enlightened Christian I cannot accept anymore the ways of the fraternity especially because “you will know them by their fruits”…and we have seen them all in all these years!

    I have started a blog, A FRATMAN’S OASIS, to share my experiences and insights. There is no point in debating because the good fruits, especially the positive moves to abolish hatred and violence, will speak for itself.

    Some sites that I have visited and read started well and good in their intentions only to be marred by immature men who still fight to claim that theirs is the better frat.

    The saddest thing of all here is…before a man, in a predominantly Christian country, could even arrive at a certain point of perfecting his becoming a true Christian and brother under one God the Father Almighty he is trapped and held captive in a dubious ideology that has proven to be so anti-Christian all these years.

    And to die young in spiritual blindness fighting a wrong war in the wrong battlefield is clearly a wrong sacrifice.

    So blessed are those who are finally awakened before the Breath of Life is finally taken away from them.

    Joel F

  64. With all due respect Mr. Ferraris, I don’t know what fraternity you (used to) belong to, but I’m quite certain you are NOT my brod.

    I hate to tell you this: though your intentions are well-meaning, not all of us in OUR fraternity are Christians. We have Muslims and Buddhists among us and perhaps of other religions as well.

    Pardon my bluntness Mr. Ferraris, but as far as our fraternity is concerned we don’t use one single religion as a driving force to bind us together. We could theoretically accommodate even wiccans and scientologists for as long as they pass our standards and that they follow the rules that we expect them to obey. As such, this Christian Crusade of yours would not hold water in this argument that we are in.

    And yes, we have no room for self-righteous demagogues.

    My point to you is simple: Your frat and MINE are NOT THE SAME.

    LET’S LEAVE IT THAT.

    Do what you have to do, but not at the expense of MY FRATERNITY. I don’t know what shenanigans and berky stuff your frat is/was involved in, but whatever you have to say only applies to YOUR FRATERNITY and perhaps for others (assuming that you have exclusive inside information on these others). Whatever you have to share does not automatically in any way applies or is happening in my Fraternity.

    I wish you well on your endeavor. I hope that you can convince these so-called fratmen with this penchant for immature undertakings to cease and desist such unwarranted actions.

    As for your allegations that there are these immature fratmen who insist that their fraternity is better than others, this is what I have to say:

    My Fraternity whose existence of MORE THAN SEVEN DECADES, has a history that speaks for itself. My brods and our collective achievements all these years speak for themselves. You may well be speaking of other fratmen, BUT CERTAINLY WE ARE NOT ONE OF THOSE.

    For once, I’ll say this in Filipino: TANTANAN NINYO KAMI. IBA KAMI SA INYO. DI KAMI TULAD NINYO. KUNG ANO MANG KATARANTADUHAN PINAG-GAGAWA NINYO, HUWAG NINYO KAMI IDAMAY.

    Why do we have to clean up the crap that you guys have left behind? You’re not one of us. We’re too much above that level to even think about doing such deplorable things.

    @fuzzylogic: I’ll get back to your points much later. You see, I’m quite busy right now “making a dent in MY universe” resulting in significant contributions to society by molding future leaders. And you know what? I wouldn’t be this successful in this chosen path of mine if not for my Fraternity and the training that I got from BEING A U.P. ARGONAUT. I have gotten my own GOLDEN FLEECE and fought my own personal hydras and Clashing Rocks, and now I’m on my voyage back home to share it with others. The Adventure never ends…

    UP Argonaut 90 aka UP Fratman

  65. ang mga frat members ay bakla, bakit bakla kasi di nila kaya sumalo ng pananagutan at nagtatago pag may napapatay sa hazing, nagtuturuan at ayaw umamin, hahangaan ko sila pag sila umamin at lumantad at mag apology, ikaw kaya pag namatay anak mo na magbabangon sa pamilya? kung mangyari sa iyo yon.

  66. Hahaha! Natawa ako dun ah. Not because it was a joke but because it’s amusing how far (and low) can one go in stressing one’s point.

    Some last thoughts.

    Not all fraternities are the same. And yet, the more I read some of the comments here, the more I am convinced that the double-nature of fraternities threatens the safety of our students of universities. The key, in my opinion, is not abolishing or banning them, but to change their a particular aspect of their nature and culture – the underground culture of violence.

    One may go on and enumerate the accomplishments of his frat/her sorority. No body is taking that away from the group. But lets face the truth that violent and humiliating initiation practices have become irrelevant.

    And it doesn’t even matter if you’ve killed anyone. Violence, whether physical or emotional, is still violence; thus, it has no place in an academic institution.

    I’m sorry but sustaining such traditions is never about the neophytes or their firm desire to belong or build character. It’ just about traditions themselves.

    Lastly, stop telling outsiders to leave fraternities alone. If you are (or were) a student of UP where education is subsidized by the government (and paid for by the people’s taxes!), then any decent, tax-paying citizen reserve some right to express concern.

    People go to UP to be educated, to receive academic training from one of the best universities of our country, and hopefully be positive influences someday.

    ANY entity or activity or tradition that threatens the education, the safety, the health, and the students themselves, should have no place in an academic institution.

    Students and education ought to be first priority. Entities (as a group or as an individual) should have power over traditions, and not the other way around. You control your values and practices, and not the other way around.

    [I’m ending this comment thread now. Thank you for your responses.]

  67. hahahahaha anu ba yan im onli 4th year bat den madame tlga sumassali sa frat uhmmn sa pananaw ko ung iba sumasali jaz 4 fun ung iba naman 4 power den ung iba curiosty natry ko na in high school na sumama sa kanila but im not a member bloods and crips

    wala naman dapat masaktan be man enough na harapin ung pananaw ng iba.

  68. fraternity. UP.
    natural and can never be extinguished. did you know that even the Anti-Hazing Law was proposed by a fratman himself?

    oh yes.
    let me recall his name.
    Senator Joker Arroyo of Upsilon Sigma Phi.

    ring a bell?

    yeah, how can a fratman himself, abolish the very same principles and doings the frat continues to do? di ko gets. malupit ang mga “launcy”. pero abolish intitiation and paddles?

    yeah right.

  69. What I’m confused about is that why is it that when a guy dies because of hazing by a fraternity, our government quicly jumps on the opportunity to point the blaming finger; but when activists, students and journalists die, we see no action. Don’t misinterpret me, i feel the same way. i find it just too hypocritical for the government and the general populace to escalate this issue without creating an actual solution to the issue. There was a great bastardation of the concept of ‘brotherhood’ in this instance; but we must admit that we make the mistake of creating the stereotypes that limit us from searching further than what is made to be seen.

  70. Hello Web Admin, I noticed that your On-Page SEO is is missing a few factors, for one you do not use all three H tags in your post, also I notice that you are not using bold or italics properly in your SEO optimization. On-Page SEO means more now than ever since the new Google update: Panda. No longer are backlinks and simply pinging or sending out a RSS feed the key to getting Google PageRank or Alexa Rankings, You now NEED On-Page SEO. So what is good On-Page SEO?First your keyword must appear in the title.Then it must appear in the URL.You have to optimize your keyword and make sure that it has a nice keyword density of 3-5% in your article with relevant LSI (Latent Semantic Indexing). Then you should spread all H1,H2,H3 tags in your article.Your Keyword should appear in your first paragraph and in the last sentence of the page. You should have relevant usage of Bold and italics of your keyword.There should be one internal link to a page on your blog and you should have one image with an alt tag that has your keyword….wait there’s even more Now what if i told you there was a simple WordPress plugin that does all the On-Page SEO, and automatically for you? That’s right AUTOMATICALLY, just watch this 4minute video for more information at. Seo Plugin

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s